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Author Topic: Increasing health of apache? Or making it bullet proof?  (Read 3382 times)

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your evil twin

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Increasing health of apache? Or making it bullet proof?
« on: December 10, 2005, 08:15:26 PM »

This perhaps isn't quite the right section to put this, but I figured it would be of interest to everyone involved in improving Half-Life: Source.

Originally in half-life, most of the apache helicopter was immune to bullets, only the top engine and the cockpit glass could take damage from bullets, therefore making the rocket launcher and the tau cannon (gauss gun) the anti-aircraft weapons (as they penetrate that bullet proof armour and do full damage.)

When playing HL:S, I discovered that the apache helicopters are ridiculously easy to kill.  Now, the whole helicopter is vulnerable to bullets... and the apache has such low health, that you can blow one up with the MP5 with less than a full clip!  It goes down after about 30 bullets, its barely any stronger than a human grunt.  And that is on hard mode!

I remembered that old Half-Life had a skill.cfg file which had the health/weapon damage values for everything, including the apache, and so I looked through the Half-Life Source GCF file and found the HL:S equivalent.  Except... the one enemy that isn't in the skill.cfg for HL:S is the apache.  Which means, I can't figure out a way to increase its health!  Argh!

Does anyone know of a way that might increase the health of the apache (in HL2 you can alter health/damage of stuff with some SV_ commands), or make it bullet-proof like the aircraft in Half-Life 2?  I was thinking that perhaps messing with the hitboxes of the apache model might make it bullet proof, since in the past when people made apache replacements for normal Half-Life and didn't get the hitboxes right the result was that the apache was totally bullet proof (had no vulnerable areas) and could only be taken down by the RPG or gauss.  Would be great if we could do that on purpose for Half-Life: Source.  Since the HLS apache has such low health, we don't want to give it any vulnerable spots. ;)
« Last Edit: December 10, 2005, 08:19:16 PM by your evil twin »
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Frraksurred

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Re: Increasing health of apache? Or making it bullet proof?
« Reply #1 on: December 10, 2005, 08:33:43 PM »

Excellent post.  I was unaware of the change from HL1 to HL:S.  I have always taken the Apache down with the Guass, so I had not noticed the difference.

We will have to look into addressing this.  No promises, but I'd like to see it at least match the original as well.
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halflifedave

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Re: Increasing health of apache? Or making it bullet proof?
« Reply #2 on: December 10, 2005, 08:56:35 PM »

uh, would the vmt commands make the apache bulletproof?

but yea I agree, it's very sad that you can take down the apache with a pistol (yes a pistol) on source  :-\
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your evil twin

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Re: Increasing health of apache? Or making it bullet proof?
« Reply #3 on: December 10, 2005, 09:20:24 PM »

Ah, good to see this bothers other people as well. :)

Just thought I'd mention something else while I'm at it - for some reason, if from the 'New Game' menu you to choose to start playing from the Lambda Core chapter, instead of starting in the first map of Lambda Core, you start in the second, which means you miss out the section where you go down on that diagonal elevator with the military truck on it and then fight the female assassins for the second time.  I seem to remember when going through the HL2 files that there's actually a text file that specifies what map you start on when you select a chapter, so I'm guessing that with HL:S Valve simply got one number wrong in the HL:S version of that file.

And, finally... I'm sure you already know this, but the last beta HL:S HD pack included an Osprey that... well, didn't work.  It would get stuck in place and/or the grunts would not drop down on ropes from it, whatever it was totally messed up.  At first I thought it was another mistake by Valve (like the apache thing) until I releasised that the HD pack included an Osprey replacement, I had not been ableto  tell the difference between the replacement model and the original.

So yeah, Valve messed up on the apache health and the Lambda Core starting map, and you guys messed up on the Osprey model. :D  There you go.
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Marphy Black

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Re: Increasing health of apache? Or making it bullet proof?
« Reply #4 on: December 10, 2005, 09:52:23 PM »

It would get stuck in place and/or the grunts would not drop down on ropes from it, whatever it was totally messed up. 
They used Romka's Osprey model, which can only be used properly in Opposing Force. It won't work right in HL.
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Frraksurred

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Re: Increasing health of apache? Or making it bullet proof?
« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2005, 02:33:20 AM »

uh, would the vmt commands make the apache bulletproof?

No, the .vmt commands only maniulate the textures and how they are seen.  They would not affect a model's damage scale.

--

Romka's Osprey has since been removed until we can make it work in HL:S as well.

--

Your Evil Twin, your posts have been incredibly insightful.  This is exactly the stuff we were hoping for when we opened the "Bug Reports" thread and offered public beta testing (however short-term).  Thank you for your time and effort in bringing these things to our attention.

We are primarily a model replacement pack.  Coding was never a part of the original plan... however there are those of us within the Team who have considered enlarging our scope as well as Team to include it.  If that day ever comes we may be incorparating a number of new possibilities.  For now, we will look into how easy the chapter menu would be to fix (it sounds as though it should be simple).  Thanks for your input into our project.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2005, 02:37:17 AM by Frraksurred »
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Sgt Wilko

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Re: Increasing health of apache? Or making it bullet proof?
« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2005, 09:28:07 AM »

Well, thats not entirely true Frrak. The VMT file can effect the damage done to the NPC. For example, the Barney armour problem we had. He was incredibly weak untill he was in angry mode.
It could be the same for the apache.
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your evil twin

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Re: Increasing health of apache? Or making it bullet proof?
« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2005, 11:23:39 AM »

Ooh, 'angry mode', what do you mean by that?

Another bug: does anyone else have the problem where grunts shooting do no damage?

The reason I've been playing HL:S recently is that I've been replacing the sounds for the hgrunts and changing the sentences.txt and stuff... and I suddenly realised that it was too easy.  Why?  Because though the grunts were firing their assault rifles at me, I was barely being hit by a single bullet!  Shotgun guys are still able to hurt me, but the grunts with M4 assault rifles almost never hit me.  Erm, why?  I don't recall having this problem before... but how can editing the sounds cause enemies' guns to stop working?!  Sentry turrets and apache helicopters can still shoot me fine, its just the grunts.

I theorised that perhaps there was something wrong with the HD grunt model, that the point that fires the bullets was actually slightly inside the model and the model was blocking 95% of the bullets from coming out.  But I don't recall having this problem before.  Hmm, I guess I'll have to try removing my replacement sounds and altered sentences.txt file and see if things go back to normal, but it is very strange.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2005, 11:25:23 AM by your evil twin »
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Sgt Wilko

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Re: Increasing health of apache? Or making it bullet proof?
« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2005, 04:42:58 PM »

'Angry mode'.
Its when a NPC sees you or a monster which it does not like, (Say - a Barney sees a Zombie) the NPC goes to 'angry mode'. I'm not sure how, I imagine the coding, but the NPC takes less damage per shot when it is in Angry mode and takes more damage per shot when it is in relaxed mode (ie - it hasn't enaged in combat yet). Thats why its best to use stealth in HL as you can pick off soldiers with one shot of a 357.

As for the Hgrunt not damaging you - We believe that the Player model is responsible for this, although I haven't had the oppertunity to comfirm this yet, Frrak and Flynia tell me that the Player Hitboxes are to blame.

Quick fix - remove the player.mdl and the other 5 ( maybe 6) files with it.
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Frraksurred

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Re: Increasing health of apache? Or making it bullet proof?
« Reply #9 on: December 11, 2005, 07:55:39 PM »

Good to know Sgt Wilko.  Thanks for the clarification.  I suppose if an object is catagorized as a "metal" object in the .vmt, it would make sence that it's properties would carry over into how much it is damaged.

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We are not entirely sure why the Player.mdl is causing the player and hgrunt's not to recieve damage.  We suspect it might have something to do with it's hitboxes, because that is what Romka suggested.  We will not know for sure until we dig into it.  Hopefully it will be something fairly simple to fix.
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your evil twin

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Re: Increasing health of apache? Or making it bullet proof?
« Reply #10 on: December 11, 2005, 08:42:55 PM »

But... if it is the player hitboxes, how comes attacks from sentry guns and helicopters can still damage me, and grunts can't?  Weird.

Also... I've been replacing the grunt sounds with some other sounds of my own (which involved editing the sentences.txt file), but weirdly I just can't get them loud enough.  No matter how many times I increase the amplification of my new grunt sounds, they are still too quiet.  But not their pain or death screams... they are loud enough, but their vioces when talking/shouting about stuff is really quiet.  Seems odd for them to quietly mumble "Oh shit, grenade."  I've tried ajusting the quality of the sound files in various ways, but I just can't get them loud, except for the pain and death sounds.  Any suggestions as to what is stopping the game from playing the sounds any louder?
« Last Edit: December 11, 2005, 08:46:00 PM by your evil twin »
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Sgt Wilko

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Re: Increasing health of apache? Or making it bullet proof?
« Reply #11 on: December 11, 2005, 09:01:07 PM »

Hmmm...
You're right, the hitbox thing does make no sense, but I've yet to try this for myself, I'm only going on whats been told to me. Ironic, I converted the hgrunt, but I've never had the oppertunity to test them fully  :-\

Anyway, as for the sentences.txt - Well, It's hard to say. If you want, I could have a look at it myself...
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your evil twin

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Re: Increasing health of apache? Or making it bullet proof?
« Reply #12 on: December 11, 2005, 10:27:11 PM »

Well, I'll continue screwing around with my sounds a little longer first - there's still a few things I haven't tried.  Thanks, though! :)
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