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Author Topic: German gov't considers jail time for gamers  (Read 4566 times)

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Red Slug

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Re: German gov't considers jail time for gamers
« Reply #30 on: December 13, 2006, 06:44:07 PM »

Actually, it's more of an attempt at sterilizing newer mass media to prevent murders by unstable, antisocial asshats (of course they're approaching it in a stupid way, making violent video games into their scapegoat). But Germany's politicians and mass media (the widely accepted media) hype surrounding school shootings and the subsequent bright idea to ban video games (mostly lead by insane figurehead politicians in/from southern Germany [read: right-wingers in religious idealogy only]) use it to further a moronically liberal cause. The German Green Party seems to have it right: leave reasonably violent games be, as they're not the real cause of violent killings among antisocial teens and by banning such games, they're only glorified in banning them. They do have a stance on encouraging non-violent games, but obviously not in a way that keeps violent games from mature adults.

I really hope sanity and common sense prevail, there. It would be sad, as it's my favorite country. D:

Min's right. That are the exact reasons, why the 'Bann-everything-attempts' started here in Germany again. It has nothing to do with nazism. Someone pulled off an amok run in a school about 3 weeks ago and injured 36 people, mostly students. Fortunately nobody was killed (except homicidal maniac, who commited suicide).
Something like that already happened in 2002, but over 15 people were killed in that amok run. Like today, a big hype was started by the politicians concerning "Killergames" and  attempts to ban these.

All we can do is wait and see what happens. The theorie of the new law against 'Killergames' sounds easy, but it's impossible to realize thas bill. It's not possible to accredit the whole WWW and computers in a country with a population of over 82 million people...

http://www.fat-pie.com/thechildthatsmeltfunny.htm

And this hits the problem very well.
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Boon

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Re: German gov't considers jail time for gamers
« Reply #31 on: December 13, 2006, 07:33:10 PM »

http://www.fat-pie.com/thechildthatsmeltfunny.htm

And this hits the problem very well.

That flash was highly entertaining to watch.

There were lots of amok runs in my country, (we kinda get one in every 2 months), but they didnt forced any "turn any mature content into "game atmosphere" ruining stupid robot childish trash.
But thats maybe just becouse the comitters of these amok runs are not young people,  instead, they are doctors, teachers older people, mostly those who work in the education system.
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Tank-Bandit

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Re: German gov't considers jail time for gamers
« Reply #32 on: December 13, 2006, 08:43:50 PM »

Min Rizor and Red Slug pointed out the problem our country currently is facing.
Somebody goes nuts, and members of our glorious government blame the easiest attackable victim: Ego Shooter, or how they like to call them: "Killer Games".

The fact that this guy had social problems and wasn't very happy with his life and blamed the society for it isn't very attractive for a headline in the media. It's all about votes and the best way possible convincing the simple minded german citizens.

This person had planned every detail of his revenge and explained his reasons and his slowly disconnection of the society clearly in a letter that he had left.

But I doubt that this event will indeed affect our law, which already is strict about violence in the media. Germany is part of the European Union and can't provide bills all the way they want. That fact is the saving point and will keep gamers from any ridiculous regulations their old fashioned government currently is planning. Luckily enough, our country is a well going market place for video games and that way of censorship could easily hurt the economy. Some of you mentioned Crytec.

Censoring video games would only be the first step to damage a democracy and the freedom of speech. You have to think about that those rules would criminalize millions of people who are only in possession of games like Half-Life or Counter Strike. That will hopefully never happen...
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Mattz1010

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Re: German gov't considers jail time for gamers
« Reply #33 on: December 13, 2006, 09:53:12 PM »

If nobody does anything who knows there's a problem, the ones who created the problem will continue doing so until it's too late to change things.
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Min Rizor

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Re: German gov't considers jail time for gamers
« Reply #34 on: December 14, 2006, 06:07:04 AM »

If nobody does anything who knows there's a problem, the ones who created the problem will continue doing so until it's too late to change things.

The point is that violent video games in purely non-denominational/partisan/extremist1 and fictional or semi-historic forms aren't the thing causing such unstable kids to go even more crazy. Their antisocial behavior DEFINITELY originated from another source: being socially outcast by peers and/or superiors. If such outcasts take this personally and many do,2 they're all the more likely to go searching for an avenue in which they can gain influence or escape, real or not. Some of these outcasts delve deeply into fantasy and science fiction (books, television, movies, roleplay)... some torture small animals... some wish they were something or someone else so badly to the point that they believe that their wish is really true... some resort to the internet to find like-minded acquaintances... some learn how to defend themselves with martial arts or guns... and some play video games in order to simulate the feeling of accomplishment.3

Granted that being outcast can potentially spawn a deep enough self-isolation and deep enough hatred for others depending on such factors as parental care/monitoring level (past and current), poverty level and even genetic predispositions to emotional/mental sensitivities/instabilities can have an immense impact on whether or not a given outcast is likely to become insane enough to murder somebody or start a killing spree. There is not a single simple answer to the issue of what spawns teenaged killers. And violent video games are certainly not a prime catalyst. They are just an easy target, being a relatively new form of mass media that is poorly understood and poorly appreciated by many adults aged 30 to 40 and older.

Also, a mentally and emotionally unstable teen might PRACTICE their "skills" and tactics for a potential killing spree using a violent video game, as the United States military sometimes does when specialized training is not available.4 Unfortunately, such games give inspiration and approximated/surrogate training to any person who is willing to use them in this way.

So simply put:
Playing violent video games will not turn anyone into a cold-blooded killer; apathy, discrimination and ignorance in society do. And this rule applies to almost any killer.

1 Not that "Left Behind" or whatever Christian extremist bullcrap game...
2 Although not all go on killing sprees and the vast majority never will.
3 Admittedly, I fit into some of these descriptions (formerly being outcast led to my interest in the internet and video games, stemming from an avoidance of "real" social life although I am not necessarily antisocial), but I have the self-control (and an inexplicable sense of hope for humanity, whether such hope makes sense or not) to keep myself far away from even wanting to purposefully harm another. Real guns scare me. And I play violent video games. I also know many who play violent video games. This entire community is made up of such people. I have never heard of a single person from this forum either 1.) doing harm to others or small animals; or 2.) threatening harm to others in a decidedly serious manner (obviously idle threats and flaming don't count). And several that I know of have their related escapes from reality (including gun use/knowledge), whether outcasts or not.
4 A custom-modified version of DOOM was experimented with and used by the US military for training purposes during the mid- to late-1990's. Google it, if you want to.

[EDIT] I removed a bunch of my deviations in parentheses and made them into numbered footnotes. Looks cleaner and less incomprehensible, now! :)
« Last Edit: December 14, 2006, 08:29:54 PM by Min Rizor »
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Mattz1010

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Re: German gov't considers jail time for gamers
« Reply #35 on: December 14, 2006, 03:51:55 PM »

I was supporting you...

I was supporting the rant on the German government.

If nobody tries to protect the gaming companies or the gamers, the government will continue to opress them until more serious charges are created.


And, in response to your "My hovercraft is full of eels", My nipples explode with delight.

Edit: But, quite a good argument. If only I'd been against you :P
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Min Rizor

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Re: German gov't considers jail time for gamers
« Reply #36 on: December 14, 2006, 08:20:48 PM »

Edit: But, quite a good argument. If only I'd been against you :P

Sorry, your wording in the post previous to that confused me. The word order and context implied that you were more for banning. Although you ARE posting on a game forum... so I should have known. :P

Anyways, I wanted to relate that just in case any sensible German (who knows English, of course... I know very little German, unfortunately :o) looking for equally sensible explanations or opinions might use a search engine and somehow stumble upon it. I doubt it, as they'd likely be searching in German... but it's worth a try. :)
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Pyroclasm

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Re: German gov't considers jail time for gamers
« Reply #37 on: December 14, 2006, 09:55:03 PM »

Min, that is exactly right.

Uh...

That's really all I have to say.

/end
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